Amiga Retro Brisbane

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: intangybles on January 13, 2020, 08:39:10 am

Title: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 13, 2020, 08:39:10 am
A1222plus Early Adopter Programme has launched!

http://www.a1222plus.com (http://www.a1222plus.com)

Very keen to know everyones thoughts on this - especially with consideration for Vampire V4?
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: BitGeek on January 13, 2020, 09:53:01 am
I saw that. I am a they would have to make the discount on the board very good. £99 for some software and a mouse I would probably never use is a bit steep to me. I dunno, perhaps I am looking at it wrong? Do you have the insight or inside track?
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 13, 2020, 10:49:06 am
I saw that. I am a they would have to make the discount on the board very good. £99 for some software and a mouse I would probably never use is a bit steep to me. I dunno, perhaps I am looking at it wrong? Do you have the insight or inside track?

No.. wish I did... would love to get some real feedback from the beta testers etc! Is it going to worth it at all? Vampire 4 was not even thought of when they started it and now look at the progress on that front!

Hope we can spark some input from others!

 
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: NinjaKat on January 13, 2020, 12:08:27 pm
Sorry for the newbie response but what even is the AAA bundle?  The site does not explain what it is or what it is for... I would like to know more about these new systems but they are not selling it to me so far!
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: Epsilon on January 13, 2020, 04:35:58 pm
I saw that. I am a they would have to make the discount on the board very good. £99 for some software and a mouse I would probably never use is a bit steep to me. I dunno, perhaps I am looking at it wrong? Do you have the insight or inside track?

No.. wish I did... would love to get some real feedback from the beta testers etc! Is it going to worth it at all? Vampire 4 was not even thought of when they started it and now look at the progress on that front!

Hope we can spark some input from others!

I am an official A1222 AmigaOS 4 Beta Tester. What do you want to know? Well, within my power to answer considering I am under a strict NDA...

I covered the system in some detail on my blog a while back now if you want to see more details before asking away:

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/01/my-a1222-has-arrived.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/01/debian-linux-on-amigaone-a1222.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/02/new-case-for-amigaone-a1222.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/02/classic-amiga-emulation-on-amigaone.html

Is it worth the money to buy it? I think if you can't afford to buy an AmigaOne X5000 system, then the A1222 was made especially for you. Essentially picture the A1222 as like an Amiga 500/1200 compared to an Amiga 4000. It is to be priced accordingly.

Keep in mind that it is never going to be as fast as an X5000, but for the things most users will do with it, the A1222 should be a nice little AmigaOS 4 system.

The A1222 is faster than my Sam 460, which is probably it's only real comparison in terms of AmigaOS4 systems.

We need to support NG Amiga systems if we want the AmigaOS to continue to move forward with new features and functions. I showed some of these enhancements in my presentation at ARB meeting on Dec 30 in Brisbane.

Remember that a Vampire system is not as fast as an A1222, let alone the X5000...if running some classic software slightly faster than before floats your boat then knock yourself out and buy one. It is impressive hardware, but still constrained by the Classic OS running on it.

Catcha,
Epsilon

Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 13, 2020, 08:58:31 pm
Thanks!

I do remember seeing your write ups go past some time ago! I will check them out again! Was very sad to have missed the last meeting! Just could not swing it at the end on the month!

Will get back to you when I have read them again! Will also set out my reasons for my questions!

Thank again!
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 14, 2020, 10:07:59 am
Sorry for the newbie response but what even is the AAA bundle?  The site does not explain what it is or what it is for... I would like to know more about these new systems but they are not selling it to me so far!

Essentially its a pre-purchase goodie pack with an offer of discounted system purchase when launched.

There is also going to be a discounted pre-purchase via 20% deposit.

https://www.facebook.com/AEonTechnologyLtd/photos/a.461608890516168/2934288419914857 (https://www.facebook.com/AEonTechnologyLtd/photos/a.461608890516168/2934288419914857)

Pack consists of:


http://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=12684 (http://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=12684)

Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 14, 2020, 11:12:15 am
Thank you for you comprehensive answer.. We all very much appreciate your input to this subject and all of the forum!

I posed my question in the hope to draw out some others thoughts... My background for this is a simple one and I am sure I am not the only one in this position!

The best and most diplomatic way of putting this is that "my hobby" is a "tolerated one" no negative inference is meant here! As a modest family we have a limited budget and time! Mostly it has to be "cost neutral" ie; sell off or trade up one thing for another. The most that can ever be scraped together for expansion or repair is in the $200 - $300 range... So $1000 AUD and up is a major project! ;) X5000 is just never going to happen!

With this is mind... How to embark on a more modern "Amiga" experience!

To put things simply... and I hope I am not misinterpreting here! I see 2 main paths (not discounting others on the way) - New Amiga (NG) OS4 or to Vampire or the like!

Doing my best to balance these 2 ideas in my head.. Would really love to gather other opinions in the process which I would hope would also helps same along the way!

So... in which basket does one similar to myself place their eggs! (Heart wants both! ;)

I hope everyone understand s my question here?

With regard to the reply below, a couple of specific questions that come to mind!

1. Will it have full AmigaOS 4 support at launch, I remember the early blogs mentioning limited driver support at the stage?

2. Will classic (emulation) be a viable option under OS4 or will multi-boot to Linux or AROS be the go?

Very pleased to hear everyones thoughts!

I saw that. I am a they would have to make the discount on the board very good. £99 for some software and a mouse I would probably never use is a bit steep to me. I dunno, perhaps I am looking at it wrong? Do you have the insight or inside track?

No.. wish I did... would love to get some real feedback from the beta testers etc! Is it going to worth it at all? Vampire 4 was not even thought of when they started it and now look at the progress on that front!

Hope we can spark some input from others!

I am an official A1222 AmigaOS 4 Beta Tester. What do you want to know? Well, within my power to answer considering I am under a strict NDA...

I covered the system in some detail on my blog a while back now if you want to see more details before asking away:

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/01/my-a1222-has-arrived.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/01/debian-linux-on-amigaone-a1222.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/02/new-case-for-amigaone-a1222.html

https://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/02/classic-amiga-emulation-on-amigaone.html

Is it worth the money to buy it? I think if you can't afford to buy an AmigaOne X5000 system, then the A1222 was made especially for you. Essentially picture the A1222 as like an Amiga 500/1200 compared to an Amiga 4000. It is to be priced accordingly.

Keep in mind that it is never going to be as fast as an X5000, but for the things most users will do with it, the A1222 should be a nice little AmigaOS 4 system.

The A1222 is faster than my Sam 460, which is probably it's only real comparison in terms of AmigaOS4 systems.

We need to support NG Amiga systems if we want the AmigaOS to continue to move forward with new features and functions. I showed some of these enhancements in my presentation at ARB meeting on Dec 30 in Brisbane.

Remember that a Vampire system is not as fast as an A1222, let alone the X5000...if running some classic software slightly faster than before floats your boat then knock yourself out and buy one. It is impressive hardware, but still constrained by the Classic OS running on it.

Catcha,
Epsilon
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: BitGeek on January 14, 2020, 03:20:39 pm
Well, getting the new A1222 board is almost a no brainer for me, when it is released - the main question is why would I splash out for the £99 AAA bundle now?
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 14, 2020, 03:57:57 pm
Well, getting the new A1222 board is almost a no brainer for me, when it is released - the main question is why would I splash out for the £99 AAA bundle now?

Not sure if i am being too cynical but £99 is a lot in local money for a Mouse! I don't really think I would use the other items?

No sign at this stage of option 2 - 20% deposit... They also say the special price will be $450US / £350 - hard to know the best value without knowing the eventual retail?

I applaud their idea! and if i had the money to be a collector I would be all for it!



Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: tifkat on January 15, 2020, 12:40:05 pm
I've got a number of questions regarding the A1222 board. I've posted a pretty detailed post over on Amiga.org. Okay for me to link to it here?

I haven't seen a reply other then others who want similar questions. They're really not asking for any kind of trade secrets...
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 15, 2020, 01:07:42 pm
Yes please do share the link! (admin says yes too - thats me in disguise!)  ;)

I've got a number of questions regarding the A1222 board. I've posted a pretty detailed post over on Amiga.org. Okay for me to link to it here?

I haven't seen a reply other then others who want similar questions. They're really not asking for any kind of trade secrets...
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: tifkat on January 15, 2020, 11:08:22 pm

Cool! The post on Amiga.org is here: http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74221
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 16, 2020, 08:54:08 am
Wow super set of questions!

Lots I had not even thought of!

Let's hope we get at least some answers?


Cool! The post on Amiga.org is here: http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74221
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 16, 2020, 08:59:59 am
Hi Epsilon, are the 2 questions I posted within your knowledge / purview to answers?

Not wishing to compromise any agreements!

Thank you
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: tifkat on January 16, 2020, 12:11:57 pm
I seem to recall that the audio driver has been sorted, and onboard network works. But that's not reliable :-D

As for classic emulation, OS4 already has RunInUAE so emulation in OS4 should be ok. I am only running OS4 on WinUAE so I've never tried our emulation, as it would make no sense.

I really want real hardware though, because emulation is just not stable enough. I'm trying to develop programming skills, and it sucks when your IDE just crashes or locks up for no reason, problems with keymaps and many other things.

I desperately want a tabor board.
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: Epsilon on January 17, 2020, 01:30:42 pm
With regard to the reply below, a couple of specific questions that come to mind!

1. Will it have full AmigaOS 4 support at launch, I remember the early blogs mentioning limited driver support at the stage?

2. Will classic (emulation) be a viable option under OS4 or will multi-boot to Linux or AROS be the go?



Sorry, I didn't ignore you. This week has been very busy for me at work, and I have not been well to add into the bargain...

To answer your questions as far as I am allowed to do so:

1. Will it have full AmigaOS 4 support at launch, I remember the early blogs mentioning limited driver support at the stage?

Answer:

Whether everything on the A1222 is supported out of the box at launch I can't comment on that.

The X1000 was released with OS4 without full onboard hardware driver support. Additional expansion cards with existing OS4 support were included with the X1000 to cover that shortfall until the drivers were ready. X1000 owners did get the onboard audio drivers later and we even ultimately got dual display support on the X1000 too! I showed that on my blog too.

I am not sure what will ultimately be included at A1222 launch time (I am not told this) but I would expect the system to be functional with OS4 as indeed the X5000 and X1000 were previously.


2. Will classic (emulation) be a viable option under OS4 or will multi-boot to Linux or AROS be the go?

Answer:

RuninUAE is part of OS4 and allows very good Amiga emulation.

Linux is available for A1222 (Debian 8 and a few other distros), but unfortunately the CPU (Tabor PPC SPE support) has been removed from the latest version of linux, meaning Linux is not upgradeable beyond the release versions already made for the A1222. This does not affect X1000 or X5000 systems, which can run the latest versions still thanks to the work of the A-Eon Open Source team in updating new version kernels to work on these platforms.

I have tested A1222 Debian 8 on my blog (as per my previous links on this thread) and it works well on A1222. AROS is not available for A1222 to my knowledge.

I hope this helps.

Catcha,
Epsilon
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: Epsilon on January 17, 2020, 02:24:55 pm

Cool! The post on Amiga.org is here: http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74221

Wow. that is a lot of questions. Although all the questions have merit, I think people maybe scared off answering because the large number of questions.

I rarely post on amiga.org or amigaworld these days. The blog and beta testing takes a lot of my time. I suspect the same is true of other beta testers.

That said, I decided to support this forum a bit initially as it is local to Australian Amiga users and want to see it succeed. It needs activity and content to do that.

So, I will try to answer some of your questions from amiga.org here, but I will bundle some together since they are related to the same topic.

Q. The RAM is listed as DDR3 400MHz. Do I understand that this is the interface speed and suitable RAM is usually advertised as 800MHz, or PC3-6400? How well will faster RAM work in the slot (Have you tested faster SODIMMs)? I have access to PC3-8500, PC3-10200/10600 and PC3-12800. Will these all work ok?

Also some SODIMMs have an L in their 'name' like PC3L-10200. These are a lower voltage SODIMM, are these suitable? Which voltage does Tabor support/expect? I have read some SODIMMs can be dual-voltage 1.35/1.5v. Does Tabor support dual-voltage SODIMMS?

How many SODIMM slots are there? It's hard to tell from photos, but I assume only one. Is this correct? If so, I haven't been able to find 8GB SODIMMs at that speed/rating (800MHz / PC-6400), hence my question about higher speed RAM.


Answer:

I recommend buying the memory with the A1222, rather than sourcing your own. That way you can be sure the memory is correctly supported and tested with the A1222 before you get it. I only tested with the memory supplied by A-Eon with the board. I have not tested other memory so I can't address those questions, sorry.

Is the MicroSD for UBoot supplied with the board? If so, what size will be shipped? Is the MicroSD a consumer-grade card or an industrial-grade card? Is the Tabor board compatible with industrial-grade cards? I'd like to consider having an industrial-grade card for longevity of the stored data, so long term the board stays functional (a working Tabor board 30 years later could still be cool). Will end users be able to obtain the UBoot image to write to their own cards (like an industrial-grade card), or will a procedure be available to copy the data from the supplied card to a new card?


Answer:

Mine came with a consumer microsd included, containing the uboot firmware. I imaged the A1222 MicroSD card to disk on my PC using WinDiskImage to read the SDCard to an image file. I can then write it out to whatever MicroSD card, which I did to a separate card so I have a working backup at all times. I do this approach for firmware updates since having two MicroSDs (one with a known working firmware outside the machine) is preferable to chancing things on an upgrade with no backout option. I like uboot implemented on MicroSD - makes sense to me compared to the CFE setup on the X1000.

I don't know which size MicroSD will be shipped with the final A1222, sorry.

Is the on-die SATA controller capable of interfacing with an SSD drive? Is there Trim support in firmware, or is there a recommended SSD to use for Amiga OS4.x? (I have read that no Trim support exists in AmigaOS 4.x)


Answer:

I am not using an SSD on the A1222 so I can't comment, but I believe some others are.

What is the max sized drives the on-die SATA controller can address? What is the max size boot 'partition' AmigaOS 4.x supports?

Answer:

I use a 320GB SATA drive on the A1222 system for OS4 and Linux and it works fine. In theory you can create a OS4 boot partition that uses the whole disk. In practice it is not needed and not recommended. I use 10GB NGFS boot partitions for AmigaOS 4, on my A1222 and 10GB SFS2 on my X1000. My X5000 uses NGFS as well. I have another 10GB partition which contains a working backup of the system partition which I can boot from if needed. I keep the larger data (games, demos, photos, videos, whdload emulation data, etc) on a separate partition that uses the remaining space on the drive.

I also have a 2TB SATA hard disk on my X5000 and that works fine. But seriously, I can't imagine needing more space than that on an Amiga and have never come close to using that much.

If you use FFS, then the max partition sizes are very restricted. Use NGFS or SFS2.

The exact limits on supported hard disk sizes under AmigaOS4 is better directed to someone at Hyperion. I haven't hit any problems with any of the disks I have tried on it to date (up to 2TB).


Is the 'internal' USB header v1.x or v2.x generation? Is there just the one? I assume this would be the case, as stated specs are 2 internal ports, which is usually one 9-pin (technically 10 - 1) header.


Answer:

To my knowledge, 2.x. There is onboard USB ports (2), and the internal header to add two more USB ports. I connected this with a USB3 converter to the front USB3 ports on my case and they work fine (in USB2 mode).


I assume a licensed copy of AmigaOS 4.1 FE will be included with the board. Does this include an installer medium, and if so, what will the medium be? Will a Linux distro also or optionally be included? And again, which medium?


Answer:

I would expect AmigaOS 4.1FE to be included with the A1222 board. Installer medium type I don't know, sorry. On the X5000 it was a Bootable USB stick, the X1000 came with a Bootable CD. If you buy the hard disk with the A1222 system (assuming it is sold that way) I assume the OS would most likely be preloaded on it as with previous AmigaOne systems.

Linux for A1222 will not be included to my knowledge. It is available to download as an image though if you are really keen to try it. Please note my previous comments in this thread about the current status of Linux on PowerPC SPE systems like the A1222.


Would a 450w PSU be sufficient for a Tabor with 8GB SODIMM (PC3-12800), an SSD, a DVD-RW, an internal card reader (powered by/running off the internal USB header) and a Radeon RX480 (for example)?


Answer:

Probably. I use a very low power PSU (180W) on my system and it works fine to power everything (sata disk, dvd-rw, USB ports and southern islands radeon card). I am not using an RX card though. BTW You won't need 8GB memory. You probably won't need 4GB either, but you can if you want to. 2GB is fine for most things in AmigaOS 4. More memory is useful of course if running Linux.


Will an I/O shield for the rear ports be included or available to be purchased separately, now or in the future?

Will you be providing any information regarding which components were responsible for the 'Plus' re-spin of the board? We're a curious bunch. The components may not be important in the grand scheme, but hey, we're a community here right?


Answer:

Sorry, I don't know. Best to ask A-Eon those questions.

I also can't answer your questions about the Early Adopter program as I have no knowledge of what is happening with that.

Not sure I answered your questions to the level you may want or expect, but I gave it a go. Hope it is useful anyway.

Catcha,
Epsilon


Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 18, 2020, 11:33:00 am
Thank you so much for your reply and answers to everyones questions - I do hope they help!

In my case exactly what I needed to know - information overload is a real thing and a lot gets lost on the noise at times!

I am sure NO one thought you where ignoring anything!  :)  sorry to hear you have been under the weather too! Hope your health is looking up!

And lastly - but by no means least - THANK you so very much from all the ARBF team for your support and input! It is appreciated beyond words!

Regards,

Mark.


Sorry, I didn't ignore you. This week has been very busy for me at work, and I have not been well to add into the bargain...

To answer your questions as far as I am allowed to do so:

.....

Catcha,
Epsilon
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: Epsilon on January 19, 2020, 01:46:34 pm
Thank you so much for your reply and answers to everyones questions - I do hope they help!

In my case exactly what I needed to know - information overload is a real thing and a lot gets lost on the noise at times!

I am sure NO one thought you where ignoring anything!  :)  sorry to hear you have been under the weather too! Hope your health is looking up!

And lastly - but by no means least - THANK you so very much from all the ARBF team for your support and input! It is appreciated beyond words!

You are very welcome. I am feeling a bit better today. The last week has been quite bad health-wise.

Catcha,
Epsilon

Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 28, 2020, 01:32:05 pm
Well.. the AAA pack has sold out!


Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: Epsilon on January 30, 2020, 02:54:37 pm
Well.. the AAA pack has sold out!

I am glad to see this. It goes to show there is plenty of people who want an A1222. :-)

Makes all the A1222 beta testing I have done over the past few years (and also in the future) worthwhile.

Catcha,
Epsilon
Title: Re: A1222plus Early Adopter Programme (Tabor)
Post by: intangybles on January 30, 2020, 03:01:08 pm
Yes I was very pleased and surprise how quickly they went! I understand they made 100 packs?

No sign of option 2 as yet - ie; 20% deposit pre-order?

Well.. the AAA pack has sold out!

I am glad to see this. It goes to show there is plenty of people who want an A1222. :-)

Makes all the A1222 beta testing I have done over the past few years (and also in the future) worthwhile.

Catcha,
Epsilon